Yesterday I travelled to Luthuli House to interview Julius Malema with the multimedia team. (see the full interview on the Political Notebook show a little later on this morning)
Here’s the interview as published in The Times today:

Julius Malema emerges from his office on the seventh floor of the ANC’s Luthuli House in downtown Johannesburg. Outside a Highveld thunderstorm is brewing.
In the passage stands a line of people waiting for appointments.
He shakes hands with the first group and asks: “Where are you from?”
A man answers: “Delmas.”
Malema moves down the line asking the same question. He is answered with a succession of small towns dotted across the rural landscape.
In his office, Malema is determined to set the record straight.
I rattle off a series of headline- grabbing statements.
Me: “You said you would kill for Zuma.”
Malema: “I have no regret about that.”
Me: “You said Leonard Chuene was not a liar.”
Malema: “I never said that.”
Me: “You said Naledi Pandor had a fake American accent.”
Malema: “I apologised for that.”
Me: “You are entitled to bodyguards.”
Malema: “I’ve never said that.”
Why then, I ask, does he get so much attention?
“Newspapers are not selling. The economy is in crisis so people look for what can sell, whether facts or no facts.”
It is an unconvincing answer, but Malema has learned to play it the ANC way. Deny your ambitions, however obvious they may seem to those watching.
I ask if he has a special relationship with President Jacob Zuma. “Do you call each other?”
Again, he demurs: “I don’t call a president. I’m also suffering to get the president.”
But Zuma tipped him as a future leader?
“There was nothing new. He’s been saying that about the youth league. I’m a leader now.”
What about his attempt to get the ANC to adopt nationalisation as official policy?
This is a question for which he has prepared. He reaches for a folder and flips to a page that shows mining company De Beers has 50-50 partnerships with governments in Namibia and Botswana.
“Here in South Africa they have partnered with BEE partners.” He flips a page: “Four.”
There is a list of names at the top of which is Cheryl Carolus.
This subject gets Malema going.
“Majority shareholding should be in the hands of the state. Not less than 60%.”
The state should be in control.
“There must be clear rules and regulations that govern labour, procurement, top management.”
Then: “There will be nationalisation before I die.”
But didn’t the ANC tell him to can it at the recent NEC meeting?
“Nobody will tell me that, including President Zuma . Nobody.”
Nationalisation, he is adamant, “will win the day”.
“Tokyo said to me, before you bring that paper of yours here, I want to see the draft. Jokingly. Not one person in that meeting said nationalisation was not wanted.”
It’s not just mines that must fall under state control: “It will go to banks, to big industries. I’m calling for the implementation of the dreams of the generation of 1955.”
But 1955 was a long time ago and there have been failed attempts at state-owned economies since then.
The temperature rises: “The situation now is worse, it demands nationalisation. Monopoly capital must be nationalised.”
Sensing he may be going too far, he smiles and offers: “Not every business, not spaza shops.”
Cold comfort, I think, to potential investors.
What about the media? Should they fall under state control?
“I know you are coming here, smiling nicely with me, but you don’t want that. You’re looking for that angle which can make headlines and make the paper sell.”
We move on to the calls for police to “shoot to kill” criminals.
” That’s what we need. Seven down in Polokwane.” As he says this, his arms sweep the room and he emits the sound of bullets flying through the air.
“You said – the media, white minorities – we must tackle crime or you’re leaving. Now we are tackling it, you are complaining.
“They must not have mercy on them. We are in trouble in this country. We can’t enjoy this freedom because of criminals.”
What does he have to say to the parents of the child who was shot dead by police last week?
“We are very sorry. It has never been intentional to shoot children like the 1976 apartheid police. Where police have acted irresponsibly, there must be action.”
By now rain is falling hard, cleaning the mean streets of the week’s detritus. Like a machine gun.

Related posts:

1. Julius Malema on nationalisation – full text
2. Julius Malema on enrichment claims – full text
3. Political Notebook: A video interview with Julius Malema
4. ANC statement on outcome of Julius Malema hearing – full text
5. Malema apology drafted by ANC disciplinary committee – full text