PGenes

Is is possible that as a country, the only means against crime we have are violent sub-optimal ones? Is there any evidence that a more “civilised” approach has any chance of working?

The civilised approach has been tried since ’94 and has proved to be completely ineffective. As a wise man once said, “The perfect is the enemy of the good.”

mandla

One of the key things about Mbeki is that he made governing South Africa look very simple. He even had a lot of women in key cabinet and govt posts. He could do it without white help.

This is the reason why all those guys without adequate formal education in the ANC, thought “its actually easy to govern South Africa and we want our turn at the wheel!” It’s an assumption that will soon bring a reality check.

Matters were not helped by Mbeki’s arrogance as perceived by whites and the ANC “idiotai” soon also caught on that criticising Mbeki was their sure ticket to power and undoing Mbeki’s legacy will endear them to the hard to please and very critical South African white establishment and its media.

This explains all the utterances and violent rhetoric by Nathi Mthethwa and Bheki Cele.

But South Africa is a first world modern state and to run it properly you need a good grasp of all the modern ideas, issues, trends and research. Without a good humanist education you are sure to flounder and stumble and get lost on the way.

How can you access all that is necessary in the world of ideas without a firm grasp of concepts, idioms, phrases, and thoughts of leading thinkers?

Mbalula, Zuma and Radebe are certainly handicapped in that department. That is why they can hardly separate Mbeki from the collective 1994 legacy and they are literally throwing the bath water with the baby in the simplistic belief that everyone is guilty by association with Mbeki.

When was Netshitenje a persona non grata in the ANC? is it before 1994 in Lusaka? or when Mbeki made him a D-G? or without the Zuma trial would Mbeki still be a bad person? In the simplistic world view of Mbalula and his friends in the NEC, he is tainted anyway by association with Mbeki.

Inspite of all the man’s (Netshitenje’s) prodigious contribution to the struggle; in the books of those who left school during break he is nothing.

Kader Asmal is spot on. We may not agree with the manner and place where he said it but it is a serious matter to have a president who thinks that police are ineffective because they dont have military power and status to deal with criminals.

Therefore we have a South Africa run like a tribal fiefdom, and leaders responding instinctively to those who are perceived to be powerful. It’s a matter of time we shall all be in serious trouble.

Larry Goodfella

Mandla I agree with 99% of your post, even though they are not your words. If you are going to cut and paste then be good enough to quote the author.

What I dont agree with, with a great measure of scoff, is the assertion that “…he could do it without white help.” No such thing in Africa, boet.

Jon

Asmal left a trail of utter destruction in education, where he pursued a know-all egghead’s agenda of “very good points” in perfect theory up against all cautions and qualms of hard-nosed practitioners. He would still argue he was right and they were all wrong, such is his overweening arrogance. He can’t grasp the weird truth that you can be so right that you end up totally wrong.

mandla

Larry Goodfella

I dont like English but I have a duty as a human being to communicate accurately, logically and persuasively.

I am really anxious and afraid of guys without a grasp of what is going on but with power.

Political buffoons make great headlines which we enjoy, but that’s exactly where Hitler, Idi Amin, Mobutu started. Somewhere down the line it isnt funny anymore.

This is the point I appreciate about what Kader had said. The violent utterances and glorification of Robocop policing and the instinctive knee-jerk policy making seem to me a prelude to a downward spiral from Nelson mandela’s 1994 ideals.

jackknife

The ANC will once again tackle the man not the issues he is raising, even clarifying why they embarked on those decisions in the first place. Verbal diarhea will thus follow the comments where the freedom to say anything is miffled out of system day by day by the new ineffective, crumbling. directionless ANC

Sibusiso

Prof. Asmal raised a few important issues, which should be debated on merits rather on personalities. However it was foolish of Asmal to use insulting words…couldn`t he raise his points without using deragatory words?

I would like people to produce evidence which will back the arguement against turning the police service into a force, like PGenes said the soft approach has not worked instead things are getting worse.

Mandla, it is very funny how people easily forget, Mbeki denied that there was crime in SA, his administration chased away qualified people just because they were white.

Now, Mandla wants us to believe that Mbeki was best for SA, Look at all the parastatals and tell me, where was his intelligence in making those appointments, Mpofu(SABC), Ngqula(SAA), Gcabashe(Eskom), Manto (Health), Denel etc.

The truth is Mbeki and the ANC have messed up things, and what paper or what line of thinking has developed that makes him an intelligent person?

His speeches are not his original work, they are mostly plagiarised from Seme and Luthuli, qouting Shakespear does not make one intelligent, or does it?

Reggie Radebe

The Nostalgia of Cde Asmal has slides into atrophy and run amok.With his pechant for Cope or Thabo Mbeki and let alone rotund belly Lekota and company who have disappear on the thin air in our politics because they are the ones who put ANC under the belly of union buildings for such a long time.Cde Asmal forgetten to talk about the size seven of Thabo Mbeki and Selebi.

Ayeye! Kader here comes lunatic Julius you have invited him unaware.

Jeff Radebe is also coming to you.Remember open letter to Lekota!!!!!!!!!

Lesetja Ledwaba

Very funny,some people are,including the so-called editor.Asmal insults people and when they insult back,they are said to be attacking personalities.never heard such hypocracy before.

Asmal’s so-called civilised police did nothing to reduce crime.the least said about his OBE the better.just ask any varsity lecture about the quality of OBE products.
What makes him think that because they “spent days in 1991″ changing the police force into police service,it now means we dont have a right “spending days in 2009″ undoing their mess?

Anyways,you go Fikile,it is time someone told this old man where to get off.remember,you can only expect respect from the young if you respect them first.

John Gwinya

Sibusiso you are a shameless liar. Provide just one shred (just one) to substantiate your lies?

“Mandla, it is very funny how people easily forget, Mbeki denied that there was crime in SA, his administration chased away qualified people just because they were white.”

Mcabangi

Indeed Mbeki denied crime and said it was a perception. It was on SABC Radio and these are his words:People think you can get out of this studio and be attacked on the parking lot,unquote. A week later Dake(Generations actress),was stabbed at the same parking lot.

Going back to Dr Asmal,I am disappointed at the manner which asmal responded to this matter. The reality is people are suffering because of crime and something must be done. In America police are very vigilant when it comes to crime and the difference is visible. in our country criminals have more rights than citizens.

The blunder was that when the rights were given to prisoners it was in lieu of the suffering political prisoners had suffered but the prisoners we have are heartless. So you fight fire with fire.

As for the other comments I am believer of Freedom of expression. Kodwa ke ukukhotha izinqe zomlungu ngoba ufuna ubukeke ungcono angeke ngikuvume Mandla.

Judge Nkola Motata

IMAGINE A SENIOR COMRADE SAYING AS KADER ASMAL SAYING HE HOPES HE IS DEAD SHOULD A CADRE OF THE ANC HOLDS A PARTICULAR POSITION IN THE ANC??? I MEAN THAT IS SOOOOOO LOW!!! SHAME ON KADER

Mduduzi Ashley Dodo

Cde. Kader Asmal, has become wholly ignorant to accepting that there ways and means in which one can raise concerns in the organisation, unless he reports to an old age home on daily basis, where his frustrations haunt him for having contributed to the academic slump in our educational system…

To attack senior leaders in that fashion is a political adolescence act, and disqualifies his contribution in the hard fought and acquired democracy we live in today!!!

Our people need protection, one of the great charters adopted say “there shall be safety and security for all” if the current system cannot make the above a reality then we need to revisit boardroom and derive better and implemental strategies… The Deputy Minister has our support.

Larry Goodfella

It seems I have raised a troll, and a Dodo….

It is close to the time to escape this lunatic asylum.

Phumlani

His hate of the current ruling party leadership is blinding him of the reality of challanges we are facing as a country. We all saw that the Mbeki and (Kader Asmal) way of doing things is not working, so its time to take drastic measures to fighting crime. His mulnutrition argument that the police are reverting back to an apartheid system of doing things is such a hogwash, the police Super Might this time around will be targeted to CRIMINALS not to a particular race. As an ordinary man on the street , I am sick and tired of crime and abuse by criminals but what Im sick most about is the politicians whose sell by date has long passed criticising all the efforts being made to combact crime. Kader and his desciples failed us. He must rest in peace.