mnqobi nyathikazi

I’ve forgiven him. It’s the black thing to do.

Bonginkosi

He is forgiven. I am just wondering whether his ‘supporters’ who were adamant that he was right will now also offer apologies or are they still insisting that their man was ‘right’? I’m holding my breath but I have a feeling that I might die of lack of oxygen.

Izz

Bullard did bad. BADBADBAD at the end of it all. He wrote his own epitaph. I wrote about him and he ill’s that he sometimes take to with the casual mind of a columnist. No wrong there, but where is the responsibility of the words and style that you choose to provide your case… real, fantasy or whatever. That’s his biggest mistake, often. I remember the bloggers-insult. He had a point, but he wasn’t smart enough to less columnisty about it and present it with decency. The recent column suffers the same problem.

But as ‘Nkosi says, he is forgiven. It’s a black thing to do.

PS: He attack on the government and its deliberate shortfalls and the criime and the road rages and all those other legit social ills will be missed.

Broer Bald

Breathe Bongs.

Bullard is not apologising for being wrong or right. He is apologising for the ‘offense’ that has been caused to those who feel offended, and for being insensitive. Nothing wrong with being sorry about that.

He firmly believes that his column is on the button, as do many of us who hold the same or similar views.

Gazzam, Hartley is outed as a spineless sycophant.

Brandon

… yes but was it an offence great enough to scrap the column? Probably not.

B

evolution

Well. What else was David left to do? Often I find public apologies insencere and calculated. Do I forgive him? Only if he means what he wrote. But the coding of the apology itself was carefully crafted like Broer Bald above said, so I doubt it’s sincere.

He should have said I am so sorry to have discovered such racist and evil images in my own head. And I need to cleanse myself and go spend a week living in a shack in Khayelitsha without running water & electricity. That would incultate respect for poor Africans in his weak ignorant spine.

Broer Bald

Well he did not say that, because he does not believe that.

If I offend someone, I am very sorry to have done so. This does not detract from my belief of what I said to be true. The context does not change to satisfy the offended party. Neither is the message any less meaningful due to a heartfelt apology.

For example: I think you are fat. Sorry if that offends you. But the fact is, that you are still fat. Please accept my apology for offending you, ut you just cannot stand on that flimsy chair.

Bonginkosi

Mr Bald, I have read his apology. The primary thing is actually around the fact that:

Quote

Particularly offensive to so many was the suggestion that a family who had lost a child would mourn for a week or so and then have another child.

Despite my claim that this is a fantasy SA, I realise that this was an insensitive remark to make and I humbly apologise.

Unquote

I think this was exactly the same argument I was making to you a few days ago that you cannot presume that Black people love their children less or care for them less just because incidents happen when children get lost.

Maybe you believe it and if you do, shame on you. Because honestly if Black people are that bad at childminding and have very little love to give to children, then White people shouldn’t be employing them as nannies.

Izz

I can’t believe that we still have genuine racist in today’s world waitse. Broer, the times a change boet. About time you cleanse yourself of sub-human thoughts and sentiments that will only question your moral intelligence.

Bullard was wrong. And that you believe he was right doesn’t make it right. I guess it’s cos your fence is on the ‘lighter’ side, hence you do not even understand what is wrong with Bullard’s comments. I still forgive him though, and no doubt his apology was of a calculating man, as Makhanya did say in his column that ‘on subsequent conversation with Bullard, he realised that the man holds his views’.

Broer Bald

Mr Bongs

The twist in your argument can be given another turn.
My personal research, that I have conducted as a hobby for the last about 5 years, on the phenomenon of Muti murders and mutilations, supports my, and Bullards, contention; that the value of life in African society in this country, is somewhat lacking. This is evidenced in the fact that commercial exploitation of body parts for traditional medicine holds higher value than the lifeforce of a living human being.

My documented observations (press clippings) run to thousands of incidences. I began collecting cuttings of the December durban beachfront lost kids stories as a sideline, and I place this phenomenon firmly within a category linked to the ‘value’ African South Africans place on their children. There is something there.

I apologise for any offense caused in bringing these things to your attention.

Broer Bald

I seems I have upset Mr Hartley. I posted a commet that uploaded successfully, but which has now dissappeared. Not ‘reported’, just disappeared.

Mr Hartley must not upset me, since I hold the power to close down this blog.

Ray Hartley

Broer Bald – Once you have been gazzamed, you are out the game. You can’t gazzam someone else. Sorry, rules are rules.

Ray Hartley

Broer Bald – That comment was trapped by the spam filter and I have put it back.

Dianne

Want a more peaceful world? STOP policing everyone else’s political correctness. How come it’s okay to tell Irish jokes, but not black jokes? Are the Irish not a race? Does this make us “non racist”? I will answer for my own beliefs and let you answer for yours. If you’re a ****, it doesn’t matter to be what colour **** you are. Stop “making” me like people of a certain colour. Let me like people of a certain character.

Bonginkosi

Mr Bald, muti murders are a different matter altogether. What I find really silly about your argument is this: You take people with psychological sickness and somehow you equate that sickness to a common trait amongst all Black people!!! That somehow they do not value life as much as White people!! Your arguments today are really shallow.

To illustrate a point, here’s a little narrative. It is common knowledge that family murders are extremely prevalent amongst White people. Until about 5 years ago, this phenomenon just about never happened in the Black community. Can I ask you a question. Would it be fair for me to say the following:
1. White people should be watched and not allowed to have families because they have a tendency to kill them.
2. To prove their lack of capability to nurture, they employ Black people to look after their children because they do not have this ability.
3. They should be prevented from owning guns because they are a danger to themselves and their families.

And so forth….

These are stupid arguments. They are racist arguments. And the reason they could be made shows the stupidity of the person who makes them. That person wouldn’t be thinking at any level beyond that of an insect.

Think, Mr Bald, think.

AK

Ray Hartley, I am notorious with you, but please do not stand in my way of doing politics of open minded thinking. I had my posting deleted as well. I have posted may posts where I have agreed with your recent thinking.

Please do not worry about the Prophet of doom. He has been trying to project Bonginkosi as a puppet kind of an intellectual. But I have warned Bald to wait and hear Bonginkosi give him raw hard facts. I can see nebchezaar’s writing coming.

Once more sir, do not feel insulted by my endorsing you and your views. It is the right of us all to change. from such a right is bald not excluded. please sir; do not get trapped in to viewing me as some kind of Mugabe. I am a true democrat who agrees with the correct and condemns the wrong.

Mr Bald; “you have been tried tested and weighed; you have been found to be exceedingly light; You thinking will not even be accepted by the Medes and the persians.” I am sure somewhere in your researh youhavecome across something similar to this.

But me as a great teacher can only feel like a failure to have realised my student into such a society of great thinkers; so poorly prepared for the world.

I congratulate all the democtrats. He failed my exam and he wants to discuss in such sophisticated debating societies.

Broer Bald

Thank you Mr Hartley. You have been zapped. New rules apply, OK.
What do you think about my debate point, though?
What was it about my post that attracted the attention of the spam filter?

Mr Bongs.
Officially, it is reported that one person per week in this country is mutilated or murdered for their body parts. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and it is thought that 50% of missing persons have fallen victim of this fact.
When one little girl goes missing in Europe, the whole world gets to know about it and are galvanised into action. Here its three centimetres of column space on page sixteen, if that.

What about the 70 year old granny’s that survived a difficult life, just to be burned as a witch, because of someones belief that she is the cause of their misfortune. I will give you a figure on these occurrences once I have sifted them out of my data.

Your one fundamental error in your argument, is the one factor that distiguishes and supports mine.
The people who commit ‘muti’ crimes, or witch burnings; are not suffering from a criminal psychology. They are not people who suffer psychological pathologies such as schizophrenia or other psychosis. They are not depressed, stressed or angry, or alcoholics etc. etc.
They are otherwise quite sane and commonly quite calculating, in planning and committing these acts. They are motivated by reward, either as the beneficiary of the required medicine, or for commercial gain. Like a hijacker targeting specific vehicles for a crime boss.

The reason why these horrible crimes are common is because people like you will not acknowledge the existence of this problem. My apologies to all who may be offended by this.

Ray Hartley

Broer Bald – last comment didn’t make it past the spam filter because of word referring to genitalia was used …. have to do this or we end up being porn-spammed to oblivion. (I edited the sentence and reinstated …)

AK

I see my post was not deleted. At times they just take too long to appear. On some other occasion we ourselves get lost in bewteen the different topics.

Audrey

Dianne –

how can I say this? I can only try it this way: The irish thing is quite far in the past and has been going on for so long that it’s a joke all on its own. Hell, the irish did plenty of raidin’ and lootin’ and killin’ on the “mainland” themselves, before the English did it back to them. The irish thing is itchy scar tissue. But our thing is fresh, and raw, and suppurating. You can put salt on scar tissue and it’ll just itch, but if you put salt on our raw open wound then it hurts like hell. It’s just like that. Because we are humans and we have hearts and they bleed. One day, we will move on, but only time and experience will allow us that.

Broer Bald

Thank you Mr Hartley. I will be careful in future. However you did not edit the sentence, you removed it entirely. I have included it below with my own word replacement that should pass the test.
My first post that got held up did not have any suspect words though???

Let me leave you with a thought. The worst incident that I came across, was that of a little girl who had her tongue, eyes, digits and f.emale p.arts removed while she was still alive. When the police found her she was still breathing. Fortunately she died. Imagine she lived.

Let me reiterate.
The reason why these horrible crimes are common is because people like you will not acknowledge the existence of this problem. My apologies to all who may be offended by this.

Audrey

Broer Bald –

I’m willing to bet that Bonginkosi, together with all of us who understand the statement “all children are my children”, certainly DOES acknowledge the existence of this problem. He has not denied the existence of the problem and has rightly identified it as belonging to another debate entirely.

Broer Bald

Thanks Audrey. I know you are trying to help by easing us away from this difficult topic, however it is relevant to the context of Bullards contention about the value of the life of children. It is therefore relevant to the current debate.

In his apology, Bullard wrote “Particularly offensive to so many was the suggestion that a family who had lost a child would mourn for a week or so and then have another child. Despite my claim that this is a fantasy SA, I realise that this was an insensitive remark to make and I humbly apologise.
”

I find the reality to be far more offensive.

Dianne

Regarding “Hell, the irish did plenty of raidin’ and lootin’ and killin’ on the “mainland” themselves, before the English did it back to them. The irish thing is itchy scar tissue. But our thing is fresh, and raw, and suppurating.”
Audrey, your lack of knowledge on the Irish issue is astounding. The Irish never colonised England – it was the other way around. Oliver Cromwell GAVE Irish land to his (British) soldiers. With regard to One must KNOW one’s history before the following applies: “Those who don’t study history will repeat its errors. Those who do will find new ways to err.” Read “Trinity” before you make silly comments, or any other book on Irish history. THEN – compare it to South African history, where the black people have been treated the SAME way the Brits treated the Irish. It’s very relevant.

It’s quite offensive to say the “Irish thing is so far in the past, it’s a joke” – It isn’t a joke to the people who lost children to starvation and fighting. Tell Hector Petersen’s family that the “Soweto thing” is so far in the past, it’s a joke.” Tell Madiba his jail sentence was a long time ago, get over it!

You’re somewhat insensitive and a whole heap uninformed!

Bonginkosi

Mr Bald, you have now introduced the term ‘criminal psychology’ to justify what exactly? I used the term psychological sickness.

Let me tell you something you already know. In the area of traditional medicine, people were apprenticed and eventually they qualify as izinyanga. However, as you well know, all medicine has the possibility of creating great harm if taken incorrectly. There are people who studied traditional medicine and they use their knowledge not as inyanga would do i.e. to heal but they would use it to kill and/or to maim. These people were called umthakathi.

The fact that a person is called umthakathi is the acknowledgement of criminal intent and/or psychological problems. If these pschological problems and/or criminal intent were not acknowledged there wouldn’t be a word for it. Remember a person called Joseph Mengelle? (sp?) He was umthakathi of note.

So there. The point is that muti murders and mutilations are known to be criminal and to be a psychological aberrations. That there is one every week meaning 52 a year is a point so arbitrary to be laughable. What does that mean? Here is another statistic. There are more than 14 000 road deaths in SA every year. So what? Does is mean anything? See my point. A statistic without a context is useless.

The number of murders commmitted in this country tells me that we have a serious crime problem. Is this a Black thing, this criminal intent? No, that would be a stupid thing to say. But the fact that there are so many murders in SA is worrying indeed and we need to get to the bottom of that.

maiphepi

i should apologise u know they are the forgiving type. example: the truth and reconciliation commission. they will forgive but i am glad i said it they felt it. treat them like human beings not they are human beings treat them like u would a human being.

we forgive u for we are good people we dont believe in holding grudges but only God knows what it has done(damage)

Audrey

Dianne, they never colonised England and I didn’t say they did. Nobody could deny the similarities regarding treatment of people, and I’m not doing that either. The historian Charles Kingsley called the Irish “human chimpanzees”. We still have many people here, now, today, after all we’ve been through, who carry on gleefully with that kind of thing.

There are many histories, however, and nestled among them is the one where iron age Irish did indeed engage in raidin and lootin and killin across the sea, and even a bit of stealin people for slavery. Wasn’t Patrick formerly known as the slave Patricius?

But while Ireland is actually doing all right now, we are not, not yet. Yes, we must know history in order to learn from it, you are quite right. Which is exactly why we shouldn’t go around salting wounds, because historically, we have done that in so many ways. Your original comment said “How come it’s okay to tell Irish jokes, but not black jokes?”, and I was attempting to answer that. My apologies for offending you.

Look, I have about a quarter catholic Irish in me, from my father’s mother’s side. While that doesn’t exactly make me an expert, I’m certainly not insensitive to the Irish issues, nor am I a whole heap uninformed. Anyhow, I regret not having expressed what I said before more elegantly.

Audrey

Mr Hartley, is there any reason why my apology to Dianne (and my defense of myself) would not have been allowed through the filter? Because I really meant it. Shall I try again?

Dianne

No apology necessary, Audrey. We’re all adults with a point of view – viva la difference! I enjoy reading viewpoints that differ from mine. There’s still a lot for me to learn!